Another ClimateTech Podcast
Another ClimateTech Podcast is a weekly interview series that explores the fight against climate change through the lens of entrepreneurship, investment, academia, activism, and art. Join Ryan Grant Little, a seasoned climatetech founder, advisor, and investor, as he interviews the climate warriors trying to save us from ourselves.
#Climate #Climatetech #Cleantech #Sustainability #Environment
Another ClimateTech Podcast
Tarmo Virki interviews Jana Budkovskaja of Beamline Accelerator
It’s the holidays and, in the spirit of sharing, I swapped episodes with Tarmo Virki, founder and host of NatureBacked podcast in Tallinn. I’m airing one of my favourite of his interviews: his conversation with Jana Budkovskaja, CEO of Beamline Acccelerator.
They talked about:
🌲 Jana's evolution from aspiring panda-rescuer to cleantech accelerator founder
🔬 Why deep tech startups need non-equity funding in their early stages to bridge the gap between lab and market
♨️ An innovative project using abandoned mines for low-temperature heating systems in the Estonian village of Kiikla
🚀 Why startups, not governments or corporations, are best positioned to drive climate innovation
#climatetech #cleantech #deeptech #baltics
Welcome to another Climate Tech Podcast interviews with the people trying to save us from ourselves. It's the holiday season and so, in the spirit of giving, I asked fellow Climate Tech Podcaster, Tarmo Virki, if he'd like to do an episode swap, and he graciously agreed. Tarmo is the founder and host of the Nature Backed Podcast and has been interviewing climate leaders since the beginning of 2022. Of the Nature Backed podcast and has been interviewing climate leaders since the beginning of 2022. Tarmo is from one of my favorite countries on Earth, the Baltic state of Estonia, a country that, with a population of only 1.3 million, punches way above its weight in terms of startups and positive influence in the EU. I chose one of my favorite of Nature Backed episodes where Tarmo interviews Jana Budkovskaja, founder of Beamline Accelerator in Tallinn and a great lover of animals and nature. Give it a listen and happy holidays.
Tarmo Virki:Welcome to Nature Back, the talk show where we are talking with investors and entrepreneurs about the green future. Welcome to NatureBacked Jana.
Jana Budkovskaja:Thank you for inviting me and having me.
Tarmo Virki:You're running Beamline? Yes, tell us what is Beamline.
Jana Budkovskaja:So Beamline is accelerator and fund fund. So what we do? We back clean tech teams in their very early stage of development to help them to grow and to find the perfect scalable market.
Tarmo Virki:You're based in Tallinn, but teams can be anywhere.
Jana Budkovskaja:Teams basically can be anywhere, but we try to be very focused only for Europe. Again, it's just because of how quickly we can get to the teams and how precisely we can help them, because we may not so well know about the Latin American landscape.
Tarmo Virki:You said that you're working with cleantech. How do you guys define?
Jana Budkovskaja:cleantech. This is, yes, super interesting, and I think that everyone, if you listen about it, what is cleantech you think, uh, super interesting, and I think that everyone, if you listen about it, what is cleantech you think about? Clean technology, yes, as we like to uh shorten the words in a in startup line, um, but cleantech in european commission has very, very, um, wonderful, um definition, and I will even read it because I just found it recently and I'm really really cool, happy about it. So cleantech is new technologies and related to business models which can offer competitive returns for investors and customers while providing the solutions for the global challenges.
Jana Budkovskaja:And and this is exactly how we, when we didn't know exactly how clean tech will be evolving, it was how we felt about it, that we knew that clean tech is not only about energy. It's not about, I don't know, some kind of logistics or some kind of purification stations. I don't know some kind of logistics or some kind of purification stations but it is about all aspects of our lives. When you think about how you use resources more effectively, you use clean energy, clean technology, less chemical compounds and so on, and it means it can be wherever, from agriculture to food tech, from energy sector to logistics transportation, to space tech, basically.
Tarmo Virki:So basically, definition-wise, many people could probably think green tech when they say clean tech, and vice versa.
Jana Budkovskaja:Yes, I think it now becomes more and more complicated, but that's why we stick and we believe in clean tech, because it is not only wider, but it's from one side, it's super wide from other side. When you define the global challenge where the solution is addressed, then then it's super clear when you can understand, for example, as we have now in the current batch I don't know batteries and we really know that it means that we, by prolonging the lifespan of the batteries, we use less of critical materials, we don't waste them, boom. This is super clear. We know that this is a shortage of the raw materials. We know the batteries, the production is not the cleanest one, and so on. So it means that if we keep our resources and we keep our equipment and machinery as long as possible, then it's already very good.
Tarmo Virki:You said current patch, so as an accelerator you work with a patch logic and currently what kind of themes or what's the kind of overarching theme of the patch you're having in the accelerator now?
Jana Budkovskaja:So, just as a spoiler, yes, we have now, I would say, one of the most exciting batch because it's very deep tech and more focused in tackling with the challenges in material science, which for me is like the most interesting. But just to come back about the beamline, as I mentioned from the beginning that it's accelerated and fun, it means that we invest into teams. It means that when we decide that we want to work with team, first of all we back them with cash and then they enter the program, which is like from three up to six months for us, plus the alumni club that we keep stick together with the teams, and so this is a normal batch. What we have so traditional equity money and so on. And this deep tech batch is super interesting because it's our first batch when we use non-equity money and we provide all kinds like very, very wide variety of different services for the teams, starting from the product development up to the business development and investments.
Jana Budkovskaja:So this is super complex and but because it's done in cooperation with our Ministry of Climate, it means that we can help really these deep tech scientists which are not, I would not say not so attractive for the early stage accelerators as we are. But it is not even not fair. But it's not right to take the equity in such an early stage of the deep tax, because the span when they start to think about the equity or start to go to the market is so long that they really need to take the non-equity money. But from other hand, I truly believe that it is super cool that ministry has given this money to the private sector, because if we leave deep tech startups or scientists with their own startups, ideas in the university, in the lab, and we will give them money only there, then it means that they will not be pushed to the community of the investors, of the mentors, they will not just meet same people, you know.
Tarmo Virki:Basically, they will never get the other than that.
Jana Budkovskaja:Unfortunately, I don't want to say that, because I think also that the universities are doing a perfect work and they really try, and there are very cool communities built up already around the universities where they have their own programs. But still we all know that, as we say it in Estonian, the same is like the community is growing up the startup. So the startup. To understand what's going on, he or she needs not only communication with investors and corporates or the representatives of potential clients, but also just to communicate with the people who may be one step ahead or a couple of steps ahead, just to be in the community, because it's so important.
Tarmo Virki:Absolutely. You mentioned earlier the alumni club. I think that's probably the crucial part of all accelerators.
Jana Budkovskaja:Yes, yes, because when you just work with these teams during this intensive program, it's like when you're after the winter, you want to get you into shape and you go into some kind of retreat or camp. Then you get so motivated because you have all your teachers and coaches and all these like-minded people all around and and you really they you're so pumped with the motivation and the inspiration that you just run and as soon as you come home, the reality hits.
Tarmo Virki:Or the same analogy, that you know it's the January when most people go to gym. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then February hits.
Jana Budkovskaja:Yes, yeah, yeah, especially in our climate. It's the same with the startups. When you are carried and you know that you can call whatever time and you have all these workshops and you have meetups, then really, when you stay alone in your lab and you get these challenges and you get these problems, then it's really really nice if you have and, of course, the. The idea of accelerator is like again, from from the, from the definition, it's, it's idea how to push you, so to give you extra momentum and to keep up. Uh, you need time. So we cannot, uh even expect that everything will happen during three months. No, it will happen after a year, after two years, and sometimes all the knowledge, what you have absorbed during the acceleration program, it will reveal and become the skills really afterwards.
Tarmo Virki:Let's do a quick break to the advertisements. We will be back in a few seconds. Welcome back. Personally, how did you cut into the cleantech sector?
Jana Budkovskaja:I think I was always into nature. I really loved it In our school. It was a club for the hiking. I have had a book about how to hike, a survival guide or something like this, like for the kids. So I was continuously reading and trying to find the north and south and develop some tracks and so on. So it was always inside. And then when I just after the yeah, we already before the graduation I saw that I will go away from school and go start to save pandas and koalas yeah, I know that they're in different places, but I knew that I need to save the turtles, the pandas and koalas. And then I even thought I go to Africa to save people and to save animals there. But I was lucky enough.
Jana Budkovskaja:I went to Tartu University to the Open Doors Day and they were talking about a new department where they have just opened and it was about environmental science. And it wasn't only about the scientific part, but it was like environmental science plus a little bit of policy and a little bit of municipality and governmental procedures, about how you how you really make something happen on the level of the state. And for me me it was really, really like sweet spot because I was, so I really loved all. So I learned physics and chemistry. But then we were even given like, how this kind of stuff and you know, for me as a very emotional person, when I was reading I don't know about damages we have, for example, in the Baltic Sea, about everything was, for example, all this unfortunate heritage from the First World War and from the Second World War, how much of the chemical weapons we have dumped into the sea. So I was so depressed and, okay, what we should do, like how we can save them. So, okay, pandas will survive, but how we here can survive. That's why I think for me it was very crucial that I got the knowledge about the policy making that yes, via the policies and regulations and different kind of management tools, you can really achieve something.
Jana Budkovskaja:And then I was really into project management. I was working into project management. I was working very lucky to get very, very interesting work in one municipality in Maetakuse, and because we have had enough of money, because of the oil shale, which again, like, really triggered my emotions about our nature, but from other side, because of the money available and our mayor was, he was okay with risks. So we have done several very, very unique projects for environment in the municipality. So we still are very unique, holding this low temperature based heating system in the village called Kikla you can find this information if you google. We use abandoned mines as the source of the low temperature heat and we use it to heat the abandoned mines as the source of the low-temperature heat and we used it to heat the whole village and to prepare the hot water. So it was very interesting in cooperation with the university. So this R&D, I know how it goes, not only from the university part, but also from the part of the municipality, of the beneficiary.
Jana Budkovskaja:So, and all this just ended up that I don't know I really think that BIMLAN, in this case, as I also like, learned with my life that, okay, emotions are emotions. We can hug the trees. I'm really sorry for all the trees huggers but, but as soon as we have money, we can funnel them and really do something all the trees huggers. But as soon as we have money, we can funnel them and really do something for the trees and for the pandas and for everyone. So that's why clean tech and money are really the key for us to survive.
Tarmo Virki:Määtäkuse Kikla, that's in Itavioma part of.
Jana Budkovskaja:Estonia northeast of Estonia.
Tarmo Virki:Northeast of Estonia, next to the border to Russia. For all the audience out there who is not very familiar with Estonian geography, which is probably the case for many of us the Kikla, you know, being Estonian, I've never heard about Kikla.
Jana Budkovskaja:Cool. So now you know, there is a Kikla.
Tarmo Virki:Okay, but that project is still running. They still get their data from their mines. Wow.
Jana Budkovskaja:This is the magic from renewable energy sources. As soon as the machinery works and you maintain, it just gives you the energy.
Tarmo Virki:It's not like the oil is over and the Kuala S safe and the pandas.
Jana Budkovskaja:Yes, so I think that someday I will reach there. I just checked. It was a little bit expensive to save pandas. It's a rather expensive project.
Tarmo Virki:But there are a lot of people around the world working on that, probably, and there's not too many of them left. I think Pandas are part of China's heritage diplomacy.
Jana Budkovskaja:Yeah, yeah, because there are no pandas left in the wild nature. It's like, if you think about it, it's absolutely fascinating. It's like how quickly we have managed to damage the earth. It's like everything what we are talking. I really like the book about these breaking points, that we achieve it so quickly. It means that very often the same as you are building something I don't know, a team or your financial scheme and you know, if there is not enough of stability or the procedures are not there, then it breaks so quickly. You can imagine yesterday it was working and today it's over. It's just over like it can be.
Tarmo Virki:As an emotional person. How do you manage this kind of stress? Looking at climate change and environmental challenges, pandas are dying, and thousands of other species probably too, on a regular basis.
Jana Budkovskaja:I think that it's not a secret for anyone. But if you go, if you do something with your passion, then you just so. For me, the biggest challenge is not to make any kind of substitutional activities. You know, if you are really thinking about that yes, some, somewhere, something is really bad then not to put yourself into this kind of emotions and try to you can say that's like smooth it or or like to I don't know Greenwashing, yeah, greenwashing it from, from some some aspects it's like.
Jana Budkovskaja:It's like negative. But you know, sometimes when I don't know, let's just play around a little bit. Another angle that I don't know kids from refugees don't have education and you come in for the Christmas with the gingerbreads. This is super nice, super cute. But this is what I really want all of us to try to avoid, because emotions can bring this green washing and let it be like green emotions. It means that we do something cute, but is it really necessary?
Tarmo Virki:Yes, Does it make sense? Yeah, but taking the contrast, I mean, with climate change accelerating, we have hit the 1.5, the governments on a big scale talking to each other, nothing happens, and then you work with a dozen startups in this scheme. Can the startups actually do something about changing this paradigm where it seems like they're against the massive wall of policies or the slowness of their countries?
Jana Budkovskaja:I think that's why I'm here, because I truly believe that this is the only who can save only startups. It's the same, as you know all these in a good way, crazy guys who don't believe that something is impossible. They have some passion, they have some ideas. These are the scientists. You know, these crazy scientists, those ones who argue with obvious things, those ones who argue with corporates who say, but we have done like this. Who argue with corporates who say, but we have done like this. Those ones who argue with that our grids cannot rely on renewables. Those ones who say, yes, it cannot now, but later.
Jana Budkovskaja:This again we come back to the situation that all the governments and all the corporates even if we will eliminate all of the ideas that they are some kind of agreements, pre-agreements, political games but even in the best scenario, it means that governments and corporates, they have the high level of this very healthy inertia.
Jana Budkovskaja:The high level of this very healthy inertia because if they will start pushing the changes and shifts very quickly, society will never, ever come. You know, then we end up with revolution. But from other side, this is super good that we have this kind of you know, in, I hope, integrated and inclusive community of startups because they should be, you know, like like a liquid, integrated and inclusive community of startups because they should be, you know, like a liquid between this inertia and huge like bubbles, and they should like ping them and it means that they will push the whole system towards something. So this is like the smoothing the way for this huge, huge machine which called our society. And, of course, what does it mean for the startups? First of all, what government should do and what.
Jana Budkovskaja:I truly believe and policy. Now we know that the biggest value on this earth is talents. If you think about the humankind, it's only talents and this empathic relationship with humankind and with earth First of all. So it means that we need to really invest into people, and this is also what startups do and this is also what government can do by investing into education. Another is, again, policy making and working with corporates and government with high level of this pan-European government institutions that how we make our regulations be more flexible or be more adoptable for the newcomers, some kind of like sandboxes in regulations for them to really to be a little bit quicker in disruption and for the corporates to be more comfortable with accepting these new ideas. And, of course, corporates but again, corporates are also under pressure of corporate laws and regulations and all of this. So it means again, if we will create some kind of this liquid, a little bit of liquid areas in all of this so startups and new ideas can be, can infuse into this stigmatic and really established systems more quickly, then I think this is how we can really proceed. And that's why acceleration is super critical, because we are like a bridge and we can explain to the startups.
Jana Budkovskaja:Okay, please, guys, this is how government really sees it and you know, if you meet an effort, then you will understand how they see it. It doesn't mean they don't want to work with you. It just means that they have some troubles why they cannot do it. And this kind of translation. I think this is what we in our language call matchmaking. This is what we do.
Tarmo Virki:We will be back after short messages from the sponsors. I hope there are many oil companies in this. Ad break for you. Welcome back. Starting to wrap up this discussion, what's next up for Beamline?
Jana Budkovskaja:Next, I would like to grow a little bit more of our fund so we could also co-invest with our investors. So it means that we could really. So Alumni Club would be not only networking and some help and some talks, but also follow-up investments Because we know the teams and we, by us, as co-investors, we can lead these investors because for us due diligence is already done. As co-investors, we can lead these investors because for us due diligence is already done. So for other investors who are just looking into the new teams and especially in the cleantech if they haven't ever been to cleantech, this is again a little bit, you know, safe bet. So it means that by follow-up investments, I hope we will decrease or tick some you know risks management lists for the other investors. So this is what I want to enhance and to develop further our mentorship and the investment credibility for the teams.
Tarmo Virki:What's the link with the EIT?
Jana Budkovskaja:InnoEnergy. This is, yes, very good that you have asked, because I'm really happy about this corporation. So EIT InnoEnergy last year was the biggest clean tech investor in the whole Europe. They do their job, I would say, super good, because they invest plus I mean they co-invest with several of different big corporates from Europe into energy sector and, as we already learned, energy sector is also the same as clean tech very wide and InnoEnergy understood that they need so-called prolongation of their hands and they offered us to become a hub for the Baltic states so we could be the extension of the inner energy. It means extension from one side of inner energy huge network, which is more than 1,200 companies from all over Europe plus US, so we can have this kind of very on-place connections here in the Baltics and plus, from our side, we have InnoEnergy portfolio to grow in the Baltics and in the Nordics.
Jana Budkovskaja:And from the accelerator side, more batches, more teams coming in and from the kind of accelerator side, more batches, more teams coming in From accelerator side. Yes, I hope we will have maybe one more or a couple more of these equity-free batches for the deep tech teams so we could really develop this new layer of deep tech companies with clean tech focus. And also we continue with our traditional batches. But the main is that we can from the beginning we can connect the teams with big players from all over Europe. So we have direct call with Schneider or whoever else, ABB and so on. So I think the quality is what we hit the first, not the quantity.
Tarmo Virki:Good. Thank you for your time, Jana, and good luck.
Jana Budkovskaja:Thank you, yes, luck is super needed.
Ryan Grant Little:Thanks for listening to another Climate Tech Podcast. It would mean a lot if you would subscribe, rate and share this podcast. Get in touch anytime with tips and guest recommendations at hello at climatetechpodcom. Find me, Ryan Grant Little, on LinkedIn. I'll be back with another episode next week. Bye for now.
