Another ClimateTech Podcast
Another ClimateTech Podcast is a weekly interview series that explores the fight against climate change through the lens of entrepreneurship, investment, academia, activism, and art. Join Ryan Grant Little, a seasoned climatetech founder, advisor, and investor, as he interviews the climate warriors trying to save us from ourselves.
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Another ClimateTech Podcast
Is this the world's best plant-based pizza? With Joe Hill of One Planet Pizza
Meet Joe Hill, Co-founder of One Planet Pizza. Joe has dedicated his career to promoting plant-based eating through the medium of delicious pizza. In this episode we talked about:
🌿 The importance of making plant-based alternatives that deliver on taste, texture, and price
🍕 How One Planet Pizza is leading the charge in this delicious revolution
🔬 The emerging trend of healthier, whole-food plant-based alternatives
🍄 Joe's excitement about the potential of mushrooms
🎙️ The role of food activism and its influence on plant-based food industry
💪 How Joe maintains his resilience and health while running a high-growth business
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/oneplanetpizza/
#climatetech #plantbased #pizza
Welcome to another Climate Tech Podcast interviews with the people trying to save us from ourselves. Joe and Mike Hill of One Planet Pizza make some of the top rated plant-based pizzas in the world. They've been at it for years and are easy to find in the UK's frozen food aisles. I've not tried one yet, but the next best thing was to get Joe on the podcast to talk about them. We went deep into what it's like to run a plant-based pizza company in 2024 for a pioneer like him.
Ryan Grant Little:I reached Joe in Norwich, England. I'm Ryan Grant Little. Thanks for being here, Joe. Welcome to the podcast. It's great to see you. Hey, Ryan. Yeah, thank you for having me. So you and your dad, Mike, started One Planet Pizza in 2016. So that, first of all, makes you kind of veterans of the industry. I mean, 2016 doesn't feel like too long ago for most industries, but in plant-based, that's eons ago. Yes, can you talk a bit about it? Probably feels that way too in the industry, but can you talk a little bit about it? Probably feels that way too in the industry, but can you talk a little bit about how things got started? And also, I mean interesting that you're doing this with your dad. How did that come about?
Joe Hill:yeah, I mean very brief timeline of our story is that mike went to loughborough uni back in the 80s and he was absolutely mad for sport and anything to do with exercise. So he was with his flatmate Phil who's still his best mate and they found this really obscure book in the library and it was all about adopting a whole foods, plant-based diet which back in the 80s was almost unheard of in the UK, pretty radical, and they thought they'd give it a go. And they set up the first veggie society at the uni and just fell in love with veganism essentially and how it was improving their health and fitness. And I guess then flash forward to the 90s where I had met my mum and they'd settled in Suffolk and then Norfolk with three kids, with three kids, and really we were raised with quite a liberal upbringing and influenced, but not forced down this path of vegetarianism and veganism but really came to it ourselves, with my dad's help, became vegetarians, me and my sister at a very young age, which again was quite unusual around the age of 10. So we were the only ones in our classes in school quite unusual around the age of 10. So we were the only ones in our classes in school and back then it was just, you know, Korn and Linda McCartney were the only brands we could rely on at barbecues and stay around friends' houses. So it was a challenge, but, you know, we obviously felt very strongly about it.
Joe Hill:And then, I guess, flash forward again. I went to university. I graduated with a degree in psychology in 2014. And I myself had picked up this documentary Cowspiracy that was going around at the time and was getting a lot of attention and really it was an eye opener. You know, I was eating a lot of dairy and a lot of eggs as a vegetarian, thought that I was doing enough for the animals and the planet, but then I watched this documentary and everything changed and I really that that was a bit of a low point for me.
Joe Hill:Coming out of uni, I sort of felt like whatever I'd been doing for years and years as a vegetarian just wasn't enough and um felt a bit overwhelmed by kind of the the extreme harm we were causing the planet through animal agriculture for me and dairy and really wanted to do more about it. I wanted to try and, you know, put this passion into a job and make a positive difference, and just didn't know where to start. So I guess a few years later, Mike came to me around 2015-2016 and really the stars had aligned for us because I was very hungry to find my career path and put my passion into something meaningful. And Mike really felt the same. He'd run a business himself for years in another sector, but had always been a very passionate vegan and always very interested in food, and he'd had a restaurant that he'd run on the side for a few years but then sold that. And really that's when he came to me and said you know, I've got this crazy idea. Why don't we start up a frozen vegan pizza company together? You know, I think the market's just about big enough now and it's a really good time to launch plant-based products.
Joe Hill:And it looked like no one was doing pizza. So there was this huge gap and a really exciting growing industry. No one was doing pizza. So there was this huge gap in a really exciting growing industry and we felt like we were in a good position. We had a lot of passion. Mike had a bit of experience within business. Food was fairly new to us as an industry, but he had the restaurant knowledge on the side. But really, yeah, it was the energy and enthusiasm to get into the sector that made us take the leap, and enthusiasm to get into the sector. That that made us take the leap, and and really from there, that was the birth of the company, when we had that chat and we just decided let's give this a go and let's see what happens it's incredible how many people in this industry got started because of the movie cowspiracy.
Ryan Grant Little:It's, I mean, a large percentage, so incredible. Isn't it very cool to hear that? Yeah, it really is. I wonder I mean, just before we talk more about pizza, what was your experience, and maybe mike's experience as well? You know, if I think of the uk in the 80s and 90s, I think bangers and mash and fish and chips. What was the experience like for both of you living that way? And you know, was it tough at that elementary school for you?
Joe Hill:yeah, I mean I always try to be conscious that it was. It was always going to be tougher for Mike than it was for me. You know, 10, 20 years later and obviously he was you know he went full vegan in the 80s. So I don't know how many of them around, but you know there probably weren't as many as a million back then. You know it would have been in the probably in the tens, maybe in the hundreds of thousands, but he never really came across anyone else who was doing the same thing. So it was very tough and quite lonely for him and you had to be very disciplined and very strong minded because you know almost everyone you'd meet at a social event would challenge you and just couldn't understand why you were doing this. And they felt like it was. You know it was you judging them because you're saying, well, actually what you're doing for me isn't the right decision. And so he had to become incredibly thick skins back then.
Joe Hill:And then, when they raised kids and two of them went vegetarian, I guess it was even more complicated with grandparents and other friends who had kids the same age who just couldn't understand why they were. You know why they were choosing to follow this extreme diet, which is what they saw it. As for me, I experienced it a little bit growing up in school, you know. So, the only one in my class who was vegetarian and the other kids you know ham sandwiches, just you know lots of meat back then and just couldn't understand it. So, yeah, I've got quite a lot of nasty experiences in school where they just you know people are trying to force you to eat meat or dare you to and you know, chasing you around school with their sandwiches and stuff like that. Yeah, but it does, it toughens you up and it makes you want to stick you know, stick to your own values even more when people challenge you. I think you know it either makes you or breaks you at that point.
Ryan Grant Little:The one person not drinking at a party being forced to hold a glass of wine. Exactly, exactly.
Joe Hill:But yeah, it was a challenge. I guess it pulled us together as a family a bit more as well, because we have that in common. So, yeah, that probably was. You know, looking back, that was probably one of the early the seeds that were being planted for us to later start a business together, because we really did have this, you know, this shared belief system that most other people didn't understand. But yeah, it was really tough. I know we'll talk about grandparents later. That was always very interesting. Going to family meals, I mean, we even get it now. When you go out on social events, you know you go to a wedding and you're the only one that has the vegan option and you know someone shouts out who's the vegan and everyone's looking around and you're still the only two in the room. So things are much better and the options are vastly improved, but you are still a minority and you still have to always defend yourself, which does get a bit tiring sometimes.
Ryan Grant Little:Good news is that there seem to be more vegans out there now, because you've sold one million vegan pizzas and probably you've sold a lot of them to non-vegans. I'd be interested to hear about that a little bit as well. You're kind of who your market is, but I haven't had the chance to try one yet. You're in Austria. You're not in the market just yet, but I did get a chance to read the reviews and they're amazing, so people really love these pizzas. I've tried a couple of frozen pizzas before frozen vegan pizzas and I've not been impressed so far from other companies and I just wonder you know what are you doing, right that they're not?
Joe Hill:It's a very good question and for a long time we didn't understand what we were doing. You know we were just doing it and it was working. But more recently, you know, we've had to really step things up because we've been approaching much bigger retailers, you know, like Tesco, morrison, sainsbury's in the UK especially and they ask these questions and you need to have the answers, whereas in the past we've launched with wholesalers or independents and as long as they see the reviews and they see the prices and they know they're going to sell relatively well, they'll list you. But now it's. You know you've really got to. You've got to know your numbers, but you've also got to understand the data and what's driving people to buy these pizzas. And we've got to convince the supermarkets that we're going to bring new audiences into frozen, especially as a category.
Joe Hill:So really, when we look at the data and we try and understand who it is that's buying these pizzas, it comes down to what we call evolving drivers. So the primary drivers for purchasing a plant-based frozen pizza will be taste, price, availability meaning you can get hold of it wherever you are and the quality of the product, the flavors, etc. These are all your basic needs when you're buying a frozen vegan pizza. But what we think now the competition failed to capitalize on, and which is where we've got the advantages, is with these new evolving drivers which probably 10, 15, 20 years ago were less relevant and probably some, some of them, didn't exist. So for us, the evolving drivers we've broken down into so sustainability, health benefits and probably finally, as you know, mission and values.
Joe Hill:So those three evolving drivers really are what we double down on and that's what makes us stand out from the competition. So the other brands are huge, huge sort of household names Goodfellas, dr Octor, dr Octor Chicago Town and ZZ's here in the UK, and these are all 10, 100 times bigger than us, at least, because they've been around so much longer and they're in so many more countries and they're owned by much bigger companies. So they they offer, you know, a vegan pizza because they know the market's just about big enough and there's a gap there and it's very easy for them to fill it because they already mass produce pizzas, you know, very low cost. They already have all these relationships with these retailers, so they just slot in there and fill the gap with minimal effort.
Joe Hill:But where we come in as a disruptor is we say well, you know, we only do a vegan pizza, it's not just part of a bigger range, and we bring these driven drivers, especially the brand mission and the brand values as a vegan pizza brand focusing on sustainability and educating people around plant-based. It doesn't matter how big you are as a company. You can't just replicate that. A lot of brands like Nestle do launch brands that look very, very new and they look like challenger brands and they've done that on purpose. But you know, if you read the back of the pack and it says you know company address or who they're owned by, you can figure it out. So that's a big one for us. And the health and sustainability we understand that these drivers are increasingly more important, especially post-COVID. So we make sure that we've got a decent health claim on the pack to make sure that they are healthier than their meat or dairy counterparts. And sustainability for us, obviously it's kind of baked into our name and we make sure that we're constantly trying to find new ways to be even more sustainable as a plant-based pizza brand and then shouting about it with our messages and on socials.
Joe Hill:But then most importantly, on PAQ, and I guess these evolving drivers are being determined by the new audiences who are buying these products. So the plant based pizza, it's mostly flexitarians, and also, you know, the vegans and vegetarians slightly smaller demographics and then you have people with allergies dairy allergies are coming into the category as well. So it's quite a broad range of consumers that we have to try and, you know, excite and delight and appeal to and get them coming back again and again. So these evolving drivers are changing. We need to be very conscious of them and aware of them, but also you know which one's most important and whether that changes over time. But at the moment, for us, whenever we dig into the research and ask these mostly flexitarian shoppers, it's those three drivers. So we make sure we're doubling down on those and staying ahead of the competition, but also not neglecting the primary drivers the taste, the quality, the price and availability at the same time.
Ryan Grant Little:Yeah, those are the three key drivers, as noted by the Good Food Institute, for example, that these have to happen for people to switch to plant-based alternatives, and I mean that's great. If you are already looking at these kind of emerging drivers, that means that you've nailed some of those ones already. It makes me even more keen to try one of these. I thought your answer was going to be our cheese is the best. That's probably been just a given. Where are they? So, if I remember correctly, you're available now in some retail outlets, but presumably you're selling them also directly. Where can people buy these pizzas?
Joe Hill:Yeah, so at the moment our main customer is Asda, so they're third biggest supermarket in the UK. We're in about 400 of their stores right across the country, including Scotland and Wales, so Asda is the big one. That's our pepperoni, which is our hero product, is in their plant-based freezers. So that's our first big supermarket listing, which was a huge, huge leap forwards for us about a year and a half, two years ago. But otherwise we've built up the business over the years through independents and wholesalers in the UK.
Joe Hill:So we've got a really good distribution of about 300 to 400 independent shops and grocers across the UK. So we've got a useful map on our website because there's a lot of them and they all have different names and they're different offerings, so it's easy to go and find, based on your postcode on our website, where the nearest one is. And then we're in some smaller retailers and we've got a few new listings to announce for later this year, hopefully in the next few weeks. And then we're also in Jumbo, the second biggest supermarket in the Netherlands. We're in a couple of hundred of their stores and hoping to increase that soon as well.
Ryan Grant Little:Okay, interesting. So Netherlands you've moved your production of the pizzas from the UK to the Netherlands and you're at a mega pizza plant which, when I read about that, I thought this would be my Charlie's Chocolate Factory. I'd much rather go there, I think, but especially if there are some vegan options. Why the move, and why to mainland Europe?
Joe Hill:Yeah, so this was a real kind of turning point for us as a small business. So we always dreamed of having our own Charlie's Chocolate Factory in Norfolk, so that it was nearby. You know, we could recruit local people, build up the business within Norfolk and we could be on site every day, you know, manage the quality of the pizzas, but also we could steer the innovation and the NPD directly ourselves and be very agile. But when we were hit by the energy crisis so I think it was just under two years ago or so now when we started hearing about it and then it started to kick in and it was really because we had big walk-in freezers and lots of energy was used on site and it was quite a big site that the energy crisis hit us really hard. So we went from having enough money in the bank to go until the end of the year to having two or three months worth of cash left in the bank. So things became very tight for us very quickly and it was around the same time that investors were starting to back away and to start being more cautious because the plant-based sector was slowing down and maturing and there wasn't this sort of rapid growth anymore. So I guess these two things combined made it very difficult for us to invest in our factory and to raise enough money to survive the energy crisis. So we had to sit down as a board and as a senior team and really decide whether we shut up shop and close doors or if we try to find a way out and survive the crisis and keep growing at the same time without raising more money.
Joe Hill:So that was probably our biggest ever challenge and really we decided we'd already started the process of looking for co-manufacturers in the UK or even in the Netherlands, because we knew eventually we would hopefully reach a point where we couldn't grow anymore in our factory and it would take too long to build another one. So we started searching and picked that up quite quickly, and we found a few good sites in the UK that we went and visited but weren't quite the right fit for us. And then we just happened upon a pizza manufacturer in the Netherlands when we were at an event over there searching for one, but didn't. I think Mike was there and he didn't even realize he was talking to a guy who knew someone else with a pizza factory. So he was very lucky and then it was just the perfect fit. They ticked all of our boxes and they were looking for a plant based challenger brands to bolt onto their portfolio of suppliers and also people they work closely with.
Joe Hill:So it just worked very well and it was good timing. Closely with. So it just worked very well and it was good timing. So we had to close our kitchen very quickly and make some very difficult redundancies and try and support the team to find new work, whilst also setting up a slightly improved and upgraded range of our pizzas changing the flavor, updating the packaging a bit, moving to a sourdough base all at the same time within six months. So that was tricky, but it was worth it and we could see a way through, and it was also going to allow us to improve our margins and also future-proof us for anything else that could happen in the future. We wouldn't be responsible for a big team and have to worry about how much money is in the bank. So things are much better now and we've also got this brilliant opportunity to scale very quickly because their production is almost unlimited for us and we're really only just beginning that journey, which is exciting.
Ryan Grant Little:2022 and 2023 were very difficult times for plant-based companies and, on the funding side, a number of different things happening and so glad to see that you've made it through and become more resilient. I wonder also do you deal with Brexit issues? So now that you're manufacturing in the EU, bringing it back to your main market is in the UK. How does that work these days?
Joe Hill:Yes, when Brexit first started impacting businesses we were still producing ourselves and exporting to Jumbo in the Netherlands. Brexit first started impacting businesses. We were still producing ourselves and exporting to Jumbo in the Netherlands and it was an absolute nightmare, probably, as most people would say. And the paperwork was, yeah, was just massive and we didn't know how to start it. And you know, they needed all of these specific codes to register and there was just no help there and everyone was trying to do the same thing. So most people had to go and find a company to help them do it, but they were all so busy that even that was challenging.
Joe Hill:So we eventually got around it and managed to keep the listing. And it cost a lot more, which again was another challenge, so we had to put prices up and we were making less money on them suddenly. But when we went down the co-manufacturer path and outsourced the production to the Netherlands, it all became a lot easier because we were able to piggyback on their supply chain routes. So they were already bringing in frozen full truckloads by the week into the UK from the Netherlands. So all the paperwork sorted and all the transport routes already planned, so it became much easier, like a lot of things. So we, you know, just able to piggyback on a bigger company. Is such an advantage for a smaller?
Ryan Grant Little:brand. Yeah, that's brilliant. And so, as you mentioned, you're mainly in the uk, both with asda and through hundreds of kind of independent shops, increasingly in the netherlands at jumbo, or jumbo, as we would probably call it. And then, if I look at your map, which I did, of where your pizza is available, a couple in Spain, one in Belgium, one in Sweden, one in Malta, one in Cyprus and I wonder if you what kind of the rollout plan looks like from here geographically.
Joe Hill:I wish we had more of a plan in place but really as a, we're quite a agile team in the UK and for us we've got to be pretty laser focused over the next 12 months just until we can start hiring more people and focusing more on other territories. So for us at the moment it's me focusing on the UK. So talking to those big retailers over here and we're quite far with two of them now, which is really exciting to those big retailers over here and we're quite far with two of them now, which is really exciting. So hopefully in the next two or three weeks we hope to land one of these UK retailers alongside Asda and we can announce that soon, which will be really exciting. And you know we really only need a few of these big listings over the next year or two to hit our growth targets because they are such big opportunities that you only need, you know, one or two SKUs in three 400 stores and suddenly you know that's a massive amount of distribution. You know, almost doubling what we've currently got.
Joe Hill:But if opportunities come to us from other countries, we look at them and make sure the margin's okay and the you know the opportunity is big enough. So if they come to us to us, you know, the door is open and we do take them seriously and we often can make them work. So the Netherlands been ticking on our honesty for some time. We do occasionally get inquiries from other countries like France or Germany and then, you know, seriously consider them and usually it's just a, it's a label change on the back of pack and it usually comes down to the price.
Joe Hill:If the price is right, I think over the next year or two most of our growth will be in the UK retailers. But we have had some interest over in Northern Ireland in the last few months so there could be a big wholesaler over there and we do want to still keep growing in Europe. But we just haven't got the capacity as a small team at the moment. So really we have to wait until we get that next big listing to then, ok, get some more resources in and look at those other territories. I think for plant-based and for pizza the biggest ones will be probably Germany for us and then looking at Scandinavia as well, but we just haven't got enough people on the ground at the moment.
Ryan Grant Little:If anyone from Billa or Spar in Austria are listening, please, please, please, bring it here as well. I was in Poland earlier this week. I was in Warsaw yesterday and I was surprised to find out that, you know, I lived in Berlin for a long time. Berlin's the number one vegan city in Europe, but Warsaw is apparently number two and I spent basically Sunday through Tuesday just eating at all their vegan restaurants and it was incredible. So I mean interesting things you find out while traveling.
Ryan Grant Little:I want to talk a bit more about you as a person, joe, because I mean I follow you closely on LinkedIn.
Ryan Grant Little:I think the algorithm knows that I mean I follow you closely on LinkedIn. I think the algorithm knows that I like what the stuff that you post, and it strikes me that you know and maybe this is just from LinkedIn, but it feels like one kind of pizza is very tied up with you, kind of as a personality, and you're eight years in, you're still pounding the pavement, you know, quite literally wearing your sign and in front of shops and stuff like that, and I think it's great I mean a lot of founders when they get their funding and they kind of retreat to behind the desk and let everyone else, kind of you know, outsource their sales team and stuff like that, and that generally doesn't always work out well. But my main question is how tired are you right now? I mean, if you've been working on this really from you know, in a kind of salt of the earth way for eight years, how do you find ways to become, to maintain your resilience?
Joe Hill:Yeah, very good question. Don't often get asked that, but I think about it a lot. I have talked on LinkedIn about burnout over the years last three years in particular and it is a big risk for founders and people who you know, pour their passion into their work. It's incredibly hard to switch off. You love it but then sometimes you hate it and you know it can really be physically quite dangerous. A lot of founders at the moment I've seen on LinkedIn are talking about burnout and a few people I know have been hospitalized because they've been such busy founders and so you know, just non-stop for so long that the body just eventually gives way. So it's something I'm very conscious of and talk about publicly and I think we all need to be very aware of it because it is quite dangerous.
Joe Hill:So, yeah, I am quite tired, but I think every year I get a bit better at putting my health first and making sure I'm fully rested. So, for example, this year, making sure I book more time off than the year before, booking some proper holidays in where I switch the phone off and don't take the laptop, and make sure I have that space to rest properly, properly, because it's very tempting to still, you know, so easy now to be plugged in constantly and you don't want to feel like you're missing out or people are getting ahead of you or you're missing opportunities. So it's harder than ever but more important than ever to just find that time to properly switch off. So you know, I try and run and get into the gym three or four times a week at least, and that's good space to clear your head. But then it's the holidays when you're away for more than four or five days. To properly switch off is really important and just booking that in as soon as you can for the year ahead, really in terms of running the business. So, yeah, we've been going seven, eight years now and, um, when it's funny, when I talk to other founders who started around the same time or maybe a few years before, it feels like that 10 year milestone is really where a lot of people kind of hit the point where they think, okay, I've given this everything and now I feel like I need to take either take some serious time off you know years off or get into something new and, you know, change direction a little bit, because it just feels like an incredibly long time when you put so much into it.
Joe Hill:I can understand that the 10 year mark is a bit of a turning point, so I still feel like I've got a lot more to give to give, and I think I've been trying to write my own sort of principles out recently and try and understand, you know, all of my experiences and learnings and put them into writing for other people.
Joe Hill:So I'm in the process of doing that at the moment and one of them I think that comes out on top all the time is learning to have fun with work.
Joe Hill:So that's something that we've got better at and I think that's got us through the last eight years is we've always gone back to okay, are we having fun doing this?
Joe Hill:And if we're not, then we need to change something which we've always done, and I think now we're probably this year we're having more fun than we have had for years because we've managed to offload a lot of the hard work and we found a good partner to handle, you know, the really hard stuff, which is actually the making and the transporting and the storing and the logistics side of the business. So now we're free to do what we enjoy doing, but also what we're best at and have the most impact with, which is the storytelling, the brand building, the marketing and the selling into the retailers. That's the stuff where our passion really comes through and I think we can shine and I think that gives you longevity within running a business. It's just constantly going back to are we enjoying what we're doing on a daily, weekly basis, but then also are we working on the parts of the business where we're having the most impact? So I think those two things combined going back to those constantly is what's helped us survive this long.
Ryan Grant Little:I mean it looks like you're having fun sometimes out there as well when you're wearing the pizza box, standing in front of Sainsbury's with a sign saying just say yes to getting listed there. Or I think of Mike holding a microphone in front of a dog and interviewing a dog about your pizza. This kind of thing and it's quirky, it's fun and it's you know from the founders themselves. But it also strikes me sometimes like these are kind of some of the tactics that activists use and I wonder, you know, going back, looking at your histories of people who are, you know, plant based from a very early time but you know, as pioneers, are you also do? Is there an activist?
Joe Hill:streak in you and Mike and does that kind of? If so, does that feed into how you run the business? You're going against the crowd and you know you're kind of saying I don't agree with the vast majority of what people are doing and I want to do it differently. And it does feel like when you, you know, you go out and you socialize, go to an event, or you're out ordering food and you order the plant based option, it is, you know, in a sense it's food activism, because you're supporting the cause that you believe in and it's more than just a diet or a dietary preference. You know, it's a way of living. So I think food activism is really effective for veganism and I think, you know, I prefer it to a lot of other forms of activism within our sector. So we're always talking about how. You know, probably one of the most impactful ways of getting people to make a positive difference through the food they eat is by getting great tasting plant-based food in front of them and trying to convert people, open their eyes up to it and, um, you know, even if they're small steps, but lots of people take them, I think that's gonna really positively impact the world. So I feel like it is tied up with activism.
Joe Hill:You know, and obviously in the early days veganism did start off as a very small sub-sector and and they did have to be very loud and vocal in their approach and obviously now there are lots of different ways of living that sort of vegan way. So yeah, I think it's always been a part of myself and Mike's way of approaching the business, but we've always had to be very conscious that I think being positive and having fun and educating people probably comes first. So there's a lot of things we say no to doing because we think that might come across as too preachy or too holier than thou, which we know. Talking to a lot of people who aren't vegan or flexitarians, for example, that can really put people off and if we're too loud and proud with our messaging and too opinionated, or even using the word vegan on our packaging, can easily start to put off those people who are on the fence, in the middle, somewhere, which really is where most of the growth will come from for our category.
Joe Hill:So, yeah, we do try and approach it, sometimes from an activist's mindset and guerrilla marketing styles, but very conscious of who we're targeting and at the same time, not to cause any offense or not to put anyone off, because we do see that sometimes and we think that's not our, that's not really where we want to position our brand. We want to be, you know, fun, positive, taste above everything else, but then a bit educational at the same time. And if there is a bit of activism within that then that's fine. But we don't want it to override the. You know, essentially it's a pizza and taste and it's comfort eating and people have lovely positive associations with pizza. So that has to come first.
Ryan Grant Little:That's the beautiful part about food is it doesn't necessarily have to be theoretical, right? So activists who are talking about switching away from fossil fuels and stuff like that, it's a harder case, whereas you can be standing on the corner and giving up slices of pizza and just say eat the damn thing and see what you think. Right, exactly, yeah, positive responses. It makes me think of something that you said, that there are three ways to keep growing plant based food and break down barriers and misconceptions, which are sampling, sampling, sampling, right, and I think you probably live that as well. I know I do. So, rather than kind of preaching about it, I'll just make an amazing you know, vegan bacon cheeseburger and people eat it and say, okay, that's, that's good. It's much easier to do that than to talk about CO2 emissions. Yeah, and I think the education.
Joe Hill:The education has a part to play, but I think it needs to come after people have tasted these products, because otherwise it does influence their decision-making. So I think we want them to pick up the pizza and think, oh, that looks tasty and it's plant-based. And then, after they've given it the green light and they think, actually, that does taste great, it delivers on X, y and Z Ideally. Then they flip over the pack or they go on the website or the socials. Then we educate them about why it's a better decision for the planet, for the animals, for their health.
Ryan Grant Little:Yeah, there's a sense that, going plant-based, you're giving something up, but if we can make the point, first of all, that you're not giving anything up and in fact you're gaining something whether it's, you know, health or sustainability or anything else that matters to you that's probably a good place to come from, or to start with. What are you so looking ahead, both for a one pint of pizza, but maybe also for the sector as a whole? What excites you? What trends do you see coming down the pike that you're excited about?
Joe Hill:Yes, I think quite recently there has been this split within plant-based. So we've attended some industry events and obviously we've got our ears to the ground every day, so we do have a good sense of the direction of where things are going for plant-based and at the moment it looks like we've got sort of two camps. We've got alternatives to meat and dairy which deliver on taste and price and texture and you know they mimic meats and they mimic dairies, dairy alternatives and and then we've got this more recent move and drive towards healthier whole foods, alternatives to meat and dairy, which is really interesting and it's great to see and I think rightly so. We need to be thinking about how healthy long-term are all of these alternatives to traditional meat and dairy. And I think post-COVID people are increasingly concerned about their health and they want to swap to plant-based because they know it's healthier. But they're worried about these. Ultra-processed has been a huge buzzword recently and I think a lot of meat companies and the industry as a whole has used that against plant-based to really, you know, cause a lot of harm and confuse people and spread a bit of misinformation. So that's had an impact on how people perceive the plant-based sector. So I think it is splitting and I think it's important for brands to understand what lane they're in. So, for example, beyond Meat or this, these classic meat alternatives they focus on replacing meat and delivering on taste and texture and giving people all of those options so they don't have to buy the traditional meat or sacrifice anything. But then I think we have got a lot of brands and a lot of companies that need to focus on whole foods and healthy alternatives so that people who are coming into the category mainly for health reasons, you know, know one of these evolving drivers and sustainability as well, you know they need to be. Their needs need to be met by really great products.
Joe Hill:Where we're seeing innovation, you know for tofu, uh, seitan recently has launched in a couple of uk supermarkets, which is great to see. And um, again, it's less processed, it's slightly healthier, it's cleaner label and that's where I'm seeing a lot of the new launches. I'm really interested and excited. And again, it's less processed, it's slightly healthier, it's cleaner label and that's where I'm seeing a lot of the new launches. I'm really interested and excited to see more mushroom products come out, because I think that's where there will be a lot of excitement and delivers on health sustainability, but I think it can also offer great taste and the textures that people want from meat products. So I think we'll see a lot more mushroom alternatives come out soon, which I'm really excited about.
Joe Hill:And for us, for One Planet Pizza, it's really, you know, it's the start of the journey. For us, we only focus on those best selling products the pepperoni, the Tex-Mex at the moment, because that's what the supermarkets want first. But once we're in more supermarkets, I'm really excited to then start working with closely with them to understand their customers needs. What's missing from the category, what have they never seen before? What do people what not even know what they want. But what's out, what you know, what could come next? That's trending. That's really exciting. Within plant-based pizza, you know, I maybe even still the cheeseburger pizza, kebab inspired pizza, these flavors that people you know they haven't seen in the category before. That's what I'm really excited about next.
Ryan Grant Little:That's very cool. We talk about mushrooms a lot on this podcast, whether it's for food, mental health or cleaning up toxic waste, all kinds of things. Toxic waste, all kinds of things. I mean, it's this kind of magical thing that we've not been paying attention to for centuries and millennia in the West, and I think it's really having a moment and just kind of getting started. So yeah, I hear you, joe. Where's the best place for people to learn more about One Planet Pizza?
Joe Hill:Yeah, we've recently updated the website, so it's a good chunk of our story on there and all of our stockists and you can find out more about our mission and the team. But I think we're most active on instagram at the moment and, like you said, we're always out there in the pizza costume and sampling, sampling, sampling. So give us a follow on instagram and keep an eye out for what we're up to next and doing a lot of giveaways, competitions, but also spreading word of new launches and new listings. So I would say, give us a follow on Instagram if you want to be entertained.
Ryan Grant Little:Perfect, I'll put that in the show notes, Joe. Thanks a lot. Thanks so much, Ryan. Yeah, lovely to speak to you. Thanks for listening to another Climate Tech Podcast. It would mean a lot if you would subscribe, rate and share this podcast. Get in touch anytime with tips and guest recommendations at hello at climatetechpodcom. Find me, Ryan Grant Little, on LinkedIn. I'll be back with another episode next week. Bye for now.
