Another ClimateTech Podcast
Another ClimateTech Podcast is a weekly interview series that explores the fight against climate change through the lens of entrepreneurship, investment, academia, activism, and art. Join Ryan Grant Little, a seasoned climatetech founder, advisor, and investor, as he interviews the climate warriors trying to save us from ourselves.
#Climate #Climatetech #Cleantech #Sustainability #Environment
Another ClimateTech Podcast
How to become a seaweed farmer with Jennifer O'Brien of Sea&Believe
I found Jennifer O'Brien when reading some press about a new seaweed farm that had just been set up off the wild western coast of Ireland, in County Galloway. I've been intrigued by seaweed for a long time as a source of sustainable protein and material, as well as for its carbon sequestration power. It seems that seaweed is finally starting to get some of the limelight it deserves.
Jennifer is Founder and CEO of Sea&Believe, which owns that seaweed farm. This is to be the first of many such farms and she talks about all that seaweed can do, how it's cultivated, and who uses it.
#ClimateTech #Seaweed #Aquaculture
Promo partner for this episode is Grizzle, helping B2B ClimateTech companies generate demand and customers through high-quality content, social media, and SEO services. Podcast listeners can book a free consultation here.
Welcome to another Climate Tech Podcast interviews with the people trying to save us from ourselves. In this episode, I spoke with Jennifer O'Brien, founder and CEO of the seaweed farming startup Sea and Believe. I recently saw the news that they'd launched their first seaweed farm in County Galway in Ireland and I wanted to hear all about that and also to ask her for a little primer on all the things that seaweed can do. I reached Jennifer in San Francisco. I'm Ryan Grant. Little Thanks for being here, jennifer. Welcome to the podcast.
Jennifer O'Brien:Well, thank you very much. Glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Ryan Grant Little:All the way from San Francisco, your second home, aside from the west coast of Ireland, which is an interesting commute. But so you're the founder and CEO of Sea and Believe, which is an amazing name that's Sea like the ocean. What problem does the company solve?
Jennifer O'Brien:Great question. We're growing seaweed, cultivating seaweed, off the west of Ireland, and when I think about the problems we're solving in terms of agriculture products that are right there, seaweed doesn't require arable land, freshwater fertilizer to grow, so it makes it a really sustainable crop that necessarily doesn't contribute to a carbon footprint associated with the guess traditional land-based agriculture Again. In addition, seaweed farms can combat ocean acidification, can provide marine habitat for a particular marine life, it can help with use microplastics in the ocean, it can request your carbon carbon dioxide, all sorts of things. I feel like that's a really large question because our technology, I guess, can solve a lot of problems, in addition to creating a new food source as well.
Ryan Grant Little:So it's like the fungi of the ocean, basically. Yes, Funga that's interesting, really cool. Can you just sort of give us a one-on-one? Or give us a one-on-one on seaweed in general? I know that there are thousands of species of it, but what would if I were at a cocktail party or probably you've done this a lot of times, kind of like just at conferences and stuff, and someone's like, well, what's so great about seaweed? You mentioned some of the applications, which are all pretty amazing, but what are some of the interesting things about seaweed?
Jennifer O'Brien:Yes, well, algae are really the base of the marine food chain. Without algae, I guess there would be no fish, there would be no other sea mammals. Plants evolved from algae, so without I guess we wouldn't have evolved into land animals without it, and they played a part in oxygening the earth through cyanobacteria. So that's one of the things that I find really interesting about algae, and obviously the different algae are different in that regard between the reds, greens, the browns. They all have their unique characteristics.
Jennifer O'Brien:So I think, looking at the genomes of particularly red seaweed, I find it really interesting that they've lost some of their genes and they've gained some of their genes over time and they're thriving now in the deep waters, and that, I guess, results in them having capacity to do amazing things in terms of some of the compounds that they produced, or the red algae in particular, high in protein, either full packed amino acids and vitamins, and, at the same time, the secondary metabolites alpha, antiviral, anti-cancer, anti-inflammatory properties that can be used in various different applications. And all of that, taking all of that into consideration, they're also drawing down carbon from a growth in an agriculture setting and bringing restoring ecosystems as well. So it just I feel like there's nothing algae can't do and, looking back on the evolution of them, it kind of tells the story really a bit where they came from and how great they are now and what they're contributing to and the potential that we can use them in different applications as well.
Ryan Grant Little:Probably awesome habitat also and like hiding spots for sea life.
Jennifer O'Brien:Exactly yes, they're a perfect shelter place, particularly the kelp forests. I guess. They provide a nursery for marine life and other animals and of course, it also provides a feeding stock, because fish actually get their flavors and I guess all of their nutrients are really taken from. A lot of it's taken from algae and that's where they get their flavors. So when we're eating fish we think the fish has the flavor. It's actually the algae that they're eating. I guess that's producing the flavor. So I think that's really interesting as well.
Ryan Grant Little:And it's interesting that it's so rare to find, in Western at least, diets like the only time that I ever see it or it is at like a sushi restaurant and having like seaweed salad or my avocado roll and a seaweed wrapper or something like that. Why haven't we, if it does all this great stuff and it's accessible to us in the West, why is this not taken off as a major source of food?
Jennifer O'Brien:That's a really good question. I asked that people in. We did launch some products in Ireland and people were kind of amazed. They were like seaweed, god, you can eat that. I think it comes back to, I guess, education. Everybody knows in Asia they see me just eating breakfast morning for two, all meals of the day. So it's kind of a shock, but it's not a shock to people when people don't know how to use it. They don't know how to incorporate it into different applications. They know you can eat it but they're just kind of haven't got the recipes yet, I guess, to incorporate it into different things. So it is becoming more trendy, I guess.
Jennifer O'Brien:So I think, in time, with more education and more information on it, we'll start to adapt it more into the Western diet and we'll hopefully some of the products that we're developing will help with that transition as well for more people to adopt it, because the benefits are just incredible.
Ryan Grant Little:And so you have launched your inaugural farm in Clegan Bay and County Galloway on the Wild West Coast of Ireland. What makes that the perfect location for a seaweed farm?
Jennifer O'Brien:Go away. Come on. Our area is just fantastic in terms of the ecosystem that's there. There's two thousand hectares of scenic mountains, the box, there's grassland and there's limestone coming from the mountains in the area. So all of this combined, I guess, is fertilizing the waters there, and it's also probably more sheltered there than the rest of Ireland as well. So it just makes it just an amazing ecosystem. I go there all the time regularly, swimming in the ocean there and, like you can see the bottom. It's just absolutely incredible that you know clearly the seaweed is soaking up any pollution that comes in there and I guess it has quite a swell as well. So a lot of nutrients are just soaking all the time and it's right at the edge of the Atlantic, next up the USA, so it's just such a magical part of Ireland. I think that contributes to the flavor and the texture and the quality of, I guess, growing the seaweed there as well.
Ryan Grant Little:You mentioned the differences between green and red seaweeds, and you've chosen a red seaweed, palmaria palmata, which is commonly known as Dulse. Is that?
Jennifer O'Brien:That is right.
Ryan Grant Little:Commonly known as Dulse. To people who are talking about seaweed is a common thing, but why this one? Why did you choose this one? Is the red seaweed the most nutrient packed compared to the green seaweed?
Jennifer O'Brien:They all have different characteristics. But there's a couple of reasons why we did choose the red seaweeds and, just to start, they just have such an amazing story in terms of they have a really small genome and they lost a lot of genes and they gain a lot of genes over the years and they lost their phagellin as well. They gained genes that they needed from their neighbors, from bacteria, turempos and bryosus. So there's a lot of really interesting things that I became fascinated with red seaweeds about and that made them, I guess, thrive in deeper waters and the wave vents and they were able to photosynthesize and live a greater depth than other species. So I became kind of fascinated more in the reds and particularly in looking at different applications that we could potentially bring into the application, make new products with. So what that means, I guess, is that they have microsporic amino acids. They have for their known for their UV absorbing properties, so potentially they could be used as a natural sunscreen and other ingredients.
Jennifer O'Brien:The secondary metabolites, again different compounds or anti-cancer, anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidants. So we're doing a lot of, we're gathering a lot of data on the potential of that. Right now we're working with some universities on that to get some more data in order to move it into applications to develop more products. It's also one of the only seaweeds that's high in protein as well. The reds are very high in protein versus the green, the calpis one, but they all have other great stuff as well, Not to. I hate to dish them because we might work with them in time, but yeah.
Ryan Grant Little:They can't hear you.
Jennifer O'Brien:Yeah, they can't hear me. Yes, they can. They can hear me. So they're really high in protein and I guess during one thing that interests me with the reds he means as well is that during the famine, people, because we didn't have potatoes, were turning to eat dusk as well. So because of its nutrients, it's packed with amino acids and vitamins, and amigotrees as well. So anything that I essentially can't eat, it's probably the best thing to eat if you're on a plant-based diet as well, if it's health or nutrients. So it's just a really, really exciting properties for me and the fascination, I guess, with the evolution of it and how it came together, particularly the properties that could be applied in for food and for potentially cosmetic products as well the two areas that we're looking at right now.
Ryan Grant Little:Interesting. So cosmetics you mentioned sunscreen, things like that who are you imagining as your customers? I don't know if you have customers just yet, but who's calling you, reaching out and interested in this stuff to integrate it, and what are some of the interesting kind of applications? You mentioned sunscreen, but what are some others as well?
Jennifer O'Brien:You know it's really interesting because you kind of expect that the 20 to 30 year olds might be the people that are interested. You know if you consider it a new trend in Europe, but I find something different from doing some trade shows and sampling some products. We were selling our seaweed burger and different things like that. We got a lot of interest from people in Ireland that have heart health or issues that need to reduce cholesterol and they've heard about seaweed so they wanted to incorporate in their diet as well. So we kind of saw interest from across the spectrum of all different types of people.
Jennifer O'Brien:And now we're seeing interest as well from a cosmetic application point of view in terms of anti-aging, and we think that's going to be a huge market as well. I mean, every woman wants to, and man, I guess, wants to look younger in some way or reduce defined lines and wrinkles, and I think we've found applications that can do that as well. And a lot of people are very conscious about reefs and corals as well, so they're looking for alternatives to more natural sunscreens and furries things. So that's an application that we're looking at potentially. We're trying to gather as much data and work with universities to understand that to see if we can potentially make products in that area as well.
Ryan Grant Little:In food. I think one of the areas you've mentioned is plant-based seafood and as an investor in that space, I'm definitely very interested in that, and also as a consumer. I'm vegan but I love seafood and so I'm very curious to kind of hear a bit more about how that can boost the flavor and nutrients in these products. And I mean, in the end the fish seems kind of unnecessary here in the first place. If you're saying a lot of the flavor comes from seaweed in the first place.
Jennifer O'Brien:Exactly. Yeah, well, that's exactly it, and I guess fish does have amazing flavors and that does come from algae, for sure. I mean, I guess some of it probably comes from the fish's ecosystem too. But we can replicate that, I guess. For me, I mean, I love fish, I love seafood. I don't want to eat it anymore, given I want to let the wild fish populations, I guess, thrive again. So I am eating more plant-based foods right now and incorporating seaweed into my diet as much as you can.
Jennifer O'Brien:So we developed a number of plant-based seafood products that I guess are less processed and that have the seaweed in it that tastes as healthy as we can. Now. We felt that that was a good option. For you know, a lot of the times, with the supplement market, it can be difficult for it to take off and there's loads of supplements on the market where, like, well, I guess, if we develop some trendy products and introduce seaweed into the market, that way, people will adopt it more and they'll start maybe incorporating their diet themselves then in broths and stews and different things like that.
Jennifer O'Brien:So we're developed to arrange between burgers and Goujons and fish products, to test the market, to see if the consumers are interested in it and we're coming in at a different approach as well from traditional, I guess other companies like Beyond and Possible different things that were more focusing on the seaweed side of things and incorporating a kind of a healthy product, incorporating all the vitamins and minerals as well as making it taste great. And we've got loads of ideas about future products as well, like seaweed snacks and all different things. So we're really excited about what we can produce in the future as well.
Ryan Grant Little:One of my first plant-based burgers ever was, I think, maybe 2012 in Amsterdam with the original. What's it called the original?
Jennifer O'Brien:Dutch Reef Burger, the Dutch Weed Burger? Yes, we're not to be confused with the other.
Ryan Grant Little:Weed that people.
Jennifer O'Brien:Yes.
Ryan Grant Little:But just when they're starting out and I remember they just had kind of I don't know a stand at a festival or something like that and I think that's kind of blown up and it was delicious, you know, but it hasn't taken off the way I kind of thought it might in the last 10, 12 years.
Jennifer O'Brien:Yeah, I think there's a lot of work to do still on educating, I guess, consumers, and the market is still quite small. The plant-based market is still a smaller category that needs to adopt a little bit more and it will over time. I guess there's still a lot of alternatives out there and fish and meat is still at a reasonable price. So I think it's just going to take a little bit more time for that market to expand and to move, but it's definitely promising. I think the interest and the demand are there, but it will take more time.
Ryan Grant Little:Yeah, it was really really good. I can imagine that, like me before I checked out some of your articles and saw some of your pictures on the website and stuff like that people who are listening right now are wondering does a seaweed farm actually look like? I mean, can you maybe describe it for us a little bit and talk a bit about what kind of the planting and harvest looks like?
Jennifer O'Brien:Yeah, for sure, I mean.
Jennifer O'Brien:I guess, and fortunately you don't see much from the. If you're on a boat, I guess you're kind of just seeing the buoys, so it doesn't look too exciting from a boat perspective, but, yeah, I guess the divers will get to see the real work that's going on. So essentially, we've been working with a great guy, John Fitzgerald from impact nine, so he's developed amazing infrastructure on site whereby it's a floatable device that can be easily suspended and control the buoyancy and storms. That's made from flexible and durable material and it's easy for us, I guess, to suspend the nets and drop the ropes into the water much easier than traditional ways of see. We farms that you would typically see in Asia, I guess, where they would have a huge infrastructure and different things. So we're working and testing this on a pilot level right now to see how this infrastructure works and it makes it a lot easier to deploy that into the ocean rather than building out a really expensive big platform with anchors. So we're really excited.
Jennifer O'Brien:So the diet infrastructure is actually going into the water very soon and then we're working with a great team of biologists the Irish seaweed consultancy, on their cultivating the seaweed and the hatchery and typically they collect up. They've collected approximately 6,000 samples. They grow as the cultivated seaweed palm area in the hatchery for about 12 weeks and then, when it's at a suitable size, it's deployed into the ocean. It's deployed typically based on the reproductive cycle. It has to be deployed in, I guess, November, December, the latest January, and then it's harvested around April, Maytime. So you've to follow the reproductive cycle and there is an opportunity also to do some tank culture and we're certainly going to explore that and look at that as well. Some of the way that we can potentially scale up and I guess the more testing we do and the more infrastructure and all of the different pilots that we do, we're learning all the time by the best way, and it will help us to scale up as we incorporate more seaweed farms across the coast of Ireland and hopefully across the world as well, in time.
Ryan Grant Little:So are you affixing seedlings to these nets and then helping them kind of propagate, and what does the harvest look like? Do you have divers or machinery? I'm really curious about what that actually looks like. That's exactly it?
Jennifer O'Brien:Yeah for sure. The seedlings and the gametophytes are attached to the nets and then they're deployed into the ocean and they're hung, essentially from John's technology, then the buoyancy, the control, so they're hung from that device on, as you can just imagine, kind of fishing nets. They look like that essentially and then the harvest will happen. They look like at the moment. We deployed the farm a couple of weeks ago, so there's not much growth yet. So it's going to take a couple of months for them to reach their full length and we'll typically then harvest in Maytime. So we'll require boats and divers and various things and you have to do that very quickly.
Jennifer O'Brien:It's kind of before, I guess, the crop spoils or it grows too big and it kind of brings down the infrastructure. So there's a kind of you need to kind of keep an eye on it, make sure and assess it all the time, ensure that it's growing at the right and pull up the nets and look and see what's happening. So there is a bit of work involved and it's making sure and, of course, knowing when, the right time to harvest as well. That's really important. So you should come when we're doing the harvest. We've got to have you, we can take you right and you can help. We'll get you working on that.
Ryan Grant Little:That sounds awesome. I'd love to do that. My last trip to Ireland was canceled by the first lockdown and I was supposed to be in Galway on the coast and I had to cancel. It was booked for March 20th 2020 or something like that, so it was tough times, but I'm overdue. You mentioned that also. This is an inaugural kind of proof of concept or pilot farm. I'm curious to hear a little bit about the funding and what it will look like, to what your plans are to roll this out at scale and kind of. What are some of the hurdles, what's the success look like and what are the hurdles in doing this from a startup perspective?
Jennifer O'Brien:Yeah, well, I guess it's. You know, there's a huge opportunity right now in the West for the seaweed industry to take off. I think more people are becoming aware of seaweed and we can discuss some of the applications from food feed, cosmetics, gelling and multiplication All sorts of products can be as well as feeding to cows to reduce methane. So it's just an incredible valuable resource. But it takes, I guess, the whole ecosystem to come together to make that happen. As I said, we've had to build collaborations with different people, with the right biologists, the right engineers, to be able to make this happen. So that involves having really great VCs, I guess venture capital funds, and having the right partners, the right advisors to build that ecosystem and build the industry. And it's going to take some time. It's going to be I guess it's probably a 10-year game realistically. But someone has to start somewhere.
Jennifer O'Brien:I guess and you know, there is some other seaweed farms in Ireland as well and we're talking to them, we're working with them and I guess we're sharing expertise is probably the way to do that, rather than seeing them as competitors.
Jennifer O'Brien:I think that's the way we're going to get the industry going In terms of support as well incredible support from BIM, the Fishery Board and Enterprise Ireland, which are the government VCs so a lot of parties that play here to drive this along. And one of the parties that we've been working with very closely is Hatch VC, which are building a community, an agriculture community, around the world, and they've been just so incredible in terms of support and advice and connecting us with different people who have done this in other countries and have the experience to do that and have built that. So we plan to work with them going forward, as well as our existing investors, sosv and other parties, and, of course, we're always raising money. We're always going to need to raise money because this is such a new space and to scale it it's going to require some capital to do that. So so certainly we'll be continue to raise and build out that ecosystem as time goes on.
Ryan Grant Little:Are you actively raising now?
Jennifer O'Brien:We're always raising, for sure. Anyway, just listening please get a touch.
Ryan Grant Little:Glenn Gary. Glenn Ross always be closing.
Jennifer O'Brien:Yes exactly, yes, we're always raising and we're really excited. You know, we do see the opportunity for scale in Ireland and there there will be, I guess, difficulties in that. You know we're already seeing there's, you know, storms as well and building infrastructure that can be more resilient. I guess the great thing about algae is as a crop, it's just incredibly resilient, but in terms of getting it in the right ecosystems and Ireland is the right ecosystem but we do suffer from storms, right? So that's we have to, I guess, mitigate that in some way. So it's going to take a little trial and error, but already we're. We have stuff growing, so we're excited about that.
Ryan Grant Little:You talked about some of the positive effects that seaweed has on the local marine ecosystem. I'm wondering a little bit about the local human ecosystem and if the do the locals there think that you're nuts? Are they embracing this? Have you had lots of kind of interactions and questions?
Jennifer O'Brien:Yes, for sure. I mean, I think our, the people in Ireland are. They're great entrepreneurs, they're interested, they're always looking for the next big thing and for storytellers. So I think it's they're loving it, I guess, and they're really interested. So I'm seeing a lot of interest. People have been really really helpful as well and in terms of, oh, that's you know. So I'm seeing a different side to what I expected to, can't you? So people are very open to to helping. I guess I didn't. I didn't come from this industry, so people may be a little bit surprised, but I think at this stage of long enough in it now I feel like a part of it at this point. But overall, the West of Ireland has been a champion for CB for quite some time, but they just need, I guess, the right team and the right collaborations for it to really take off.
Ryan Grant Little:And what about you, jennifer? So your professional background is actually in finance. What does the path from finance through to launching a seaweed startup look like? I guess it's really helpful on the fundraising side and I'm just wondering, kind of did how did you get into this space?
Jennifer O'Brien:Yeah, I guess I come from a family of entrepreneurs so I've always felt that this was where I always wanted to start a business and that I wanted to get gain experience in the corporate world and finance world. She learned as much as I can in that second while I figured out the, I guess, right industry for me to go into. What was exciting me, what was interesting me and years ago we had a holiday home for many years and Sligo and it's grown the west of Ireland and I suffer from very bad health when I was growing up with kind of respiratory issues, compromised immune system and I started taking CB bats and Sligo and it's grown just amazing place there and I just experienced extraordinary relief from my symptoms and had a great time during the summer when I was there and became kind of really interested in C B going. Why am I feeling so great? What are the properties? And what I didn't know then was it's an anti viral, it's an anti inflammatory. I was soaking up the nutrients I guess into my body and I was just experienced this incredible relief and a lot of people suffer from. As an Ireland it's. I think we're one of the highest countries in Europe for a broad. So I thought that was really yeah. From so since then I've been, I guess, buying C B products and incorporating into my diet and I just my health completely turned around the last few years. It's just been, it's just been amazing.
Jennifer O'Brien:So from that I decided to do an MBA in Trinity, Dublin as a way to kind of transition into this, into a new industry. I didn't know how to directly go into it, so I thought it was maybe good to do a business masters and figure out the next steps. And that was the two year program was intense, it was really great and as part of that program we did an entrepreneurial model where I was able to build out what the business would look like from that perspective and it kind of gave me the confidence to start the business then and we were able to pitch to a kind of a Dragon's Den Shark Tempt type situation during the time in university. And they love the idea and the feedback coming was just incredible. Thankfully once some grand funding then that kind of enabled me to not work in the corporate world anymore and just move into this space full time.
Jennifer O'Brien:But is there any risk? And I think at the beginning it has incredible imposter syndrome. It's like nobody's going to want to listen to me. I've no background in agriculture or sea region, but yeah, that was wrong. Actually, people and hatch from one of the first people to get in contact with me and they're like we love it. You don't necessarily have to have the background in agriculture, because you come at things from a different skill set. You've built up skills in other areas of your life. You have the passion, you can learn certain things and I've just had such a great time learning the science and I think that's really what I kind of regretted a bit. I wish I had maybe studied science, but I guess maybe that would have brought me into a different direction over the years. So now I'm getting a chance to go back to that and learn.
Ryan Grant Little:It might have brought you into the same direction.
Jennifer O'Brien:It might have brought you into the same place. But I guess working in finance you get to learn. I worked a lot in credit and business landing and different things over the years. I learned a lot about money and raising money and working with lawyers and working with different industries, so that was really helpful as well.
Ryan Grant Little:Such an important skill set for this type of work, especially if you're just understanding the dynamics of finance and accounts payable and accounts receivable and different rounds and all these kinds of things are massively important and sometimes lacking with the more science driven founders I've noticed.
Jennifer O'Brien:Exactly, and thankfully, I work from Incubator Space here in SOSV, one of our investors, and what we're able to do is collaborate on that where I might have the science capacity. I've talked to people that do and I can help them in some areas of finance, so it's a great opportunity at these Incubator centers to share information and to learn from each other as well.
Ryan Grant Little:Yeah, that's what. You're lucky to have them on board, and they're a wonderful group. Does that mean you were part of the IndieBio?
Jennifer O'Brien:Yes, that's correct. We're thankfully selected for the IndieBio Accelerator Program, which has just been instrumental in driving the business forward and building awareness.
Jennifer O'Brien:And what IndieBio do is they bring you through a four to six month accelerator program that kind of immerses you in the ecosystem of the investor world and makes the introductions to investors and helps we work in your pitch deck and helps you build a story for your business and also forces you to, I guess, develop a prototype by the end of your time with them. So it was just a really really great program and we've a really great relationship with them now, I guess. So still working from their offices sometimes as well, and learning and talking and having those building those relationships is crucial as well.
Ryan Grant Little:It's really great. I've heard great things about the program. My mind was saying IndieGoGo and IndieBio at the same time. Jennifer, where's the best place for people to find you online?
Jennifer O'Brien:Everywhere I'm at wwwseehyphenbelievecom website, Instagram, LinkedIn, all of that. So, Jennifer Brian, anybody can find me in the contact me. I'd love to have a chat and talk more.
Ryan Grant Little:Amazing People want to talk. See, we had opened those also in the show notes. Thank you so much, Jennifer. It was great talking to you.
Jennifer O'Brien:Thank you. It was great talking to you.
Ryan Grant Little:Thank you so much, thank you Thanks for listening to another Climate Tech podcast. It would mean a lot if you would subscribe, rate and share this podcast. Get in touch anytime with tips and guest recommendations at hello at climatetechpodcom. Find me, ryan Grant Little, on LinkedIn. I'll be back with another episode next week. Bye for now.
